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#369 ‒ Rethinking protein needs for performance, muscle preservation, and longevity, and the mental and physical benefits of creatine supplementation and sauna use | Rhonda Patrick, Ph.D.

Oct 20, 2025 1h 50m 37 insights
<p><a href="https://peterattiamd.com/rhondapatrick3/?utm_source=podcast-feed&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=251020-pod-rhondapatrick3&amp;utm_content=251020-pod-rhondapatrick3-podfeed"> View the Show Notes Page for This Episode</a></p> <p><a href="https://peterattiamd.com/subscribe/?utm_source=podcast-feed&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=251020-pod-rhondapatrick3&amp;utm_content=251020-pod-rhondapatrick3-podfeed"> Become a Member to Receive Exclusive Content</a></p> <p><a href="https://peterattiamd.com/newsletter/?utm_source=podcast-feed&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=251020-pod-rhondapatrick3&amp;utm_content=251020-pod-rhondapatrick3-podfeed"> Sign Up to Receive Peter's Weekly Newsletter</a></p> <p>Rhonda Patrick is a scientist, health educator, and host of the FoundMyFitness podcast whose work explores the intersection of nutrition, aging, and disease prevention. In this episode, Rhonda joins Peter for part two of his deep dive on protein, continuing last week's discussion with David Allison and expanding the conversation to include creatine supplementation and sauna use. She discusses why the current RDA for protein is insufficient, how much more is needed to maintain muscle mass and prevent frailty, how activity level and aging influence protein requirements through mechanisms such as anabolic resistance, and how to determine optimal protein intake. The conversation also covers creatine's proven effects on strength, endurance, and performance; its overlooked benefits for cognition and brain health; and the optimal dosing for different populations. Rhonda closes with the science behind sauna use, including its cardiovascular and cognitive benefits, the role of heat shock proteins, and practical guidance on temperature and duration.</p> <p><strong>We discuss:</strong></p> <ul type="disc"> <li>Why the current protein RDA is too low, and why maintaining sufficient amino acid intake is vital for muscle preservation and health [3:30];</li> <li>The case for raising the protein RDA by at least 50% [9:45];</li> <li>Anabolic resistance: why inactivity—more than aging—blunts the body's response to protein, and how resistance training restores it [14:00];</li> <li>How sarcopenia develops, the profound effect of frailty on quality of life, and why it's crucial to build and maintain muscle early [20:00];</li> <li>Finding the optimal protein dose [25:00];</li> <li>Why aiming higher is smarter: the case for targeting 2g of protein per kg of body weight in the real world [32:15];</li> <li>Protein needs for pregnant women and growing adolescents [37:30];</li> <li>Why higher protein intake is crucial when trying to lose fat while preserving or gaining muscle [39:45];</li> <li>GLP-1 drugs: protein needs, muscle preservation, dosing strategies, evidence of broader health impacts, and more [43:45];</li> <li>How overweight individuals should calculate protein needs based on target body weight [50:45];</li> <li>Unpacking a misunderstood topic: the relationship between protein intake, mTOR activation, and longevity [52:00];</li> <li>Why it's unclear whether rapamycin is geroprotective in humans, and how misinterpreted animal data have fueled misconceptions about protein or mTOR activation being harmful [1:00:45];</li> <li>The unmatched longevity benefits of exercise, its synergy with higher protein intake, and</li> <li>Peter's recommended protein intake [1:06:15];</li> <li>How Rhonda became fascinated with creatine—a well-studied, safe, and effective supplement for improving exercise performance [1:09:00];</li> <li>Creatine for the brain: how higher doses may enhance cognition under stress and support resilience against aging and disease [1:16:30];</li> <li>Optimal creatine use: dosing for adults and teens, safe product selection, debunking kidney myths, and more [1:25:45];</li> <li>Sauna: how deliberate heat exposure mimics exercise, boosts cardiovascular and brain health, and shows promise for improving mood and mental resilience [1:32:15];</li> <li>The benefits of sauna for reducing risk of dementia, and why hotter may not be better [1:41:15];</li> <li>The FoundMyFitness podcast [1:45:30]; and</li> <li>More.</li> </ul> <p>Connect With Peter on <a href="https://twitter.com/PeterAttiaMD">Twitter</a>, <a href="https://www.instagram.com/peterattiamd/">Instagram</a>, <a href="https://www.facebook.com/peterattiamd/">Facebook</a> and <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8kGsMa0LygSX9nkBcBH1Sg">YouTube</a></p>
Actionable Insights

1. Prioritize Exercise

Recognize and prioritize exercise as the most important ‘drug’ for overall health, as its benefits are multifaceted and cannot be fully replicated by pills or other interventions.

2. Resistance Train to Counter Anabolic Resistance

Engage in resistance training to restore muscle sensitivity to amino acids and overcome anabolic resistance, allowing older adults to achieve the same anabolic response to protein as younger adults.

3. Build Physiologic Headroom Early

Actively build up as much muscle mass, strength, and cardiovascular fitness as possible in your 40s, 50s, and 60s to create physiologic headroom and prepare for inevitable age-related decline and catabolic events.

4. Increase Protein Intake Minimum

Aim for a minimum protein intake of at least 1.2 grams per kilogram body weight per day, which is 50% more than the current RDA, to avoid negative protein balance and prevent muscle catabolism.

5. Aim Higher Protein Intake

To ensure consistent adequate protein intake and avoid falling below critical thresholds on ‘bad days,’ aim for a daily intake closer to 2 grams of protein per kilogram body weight, with a range of 1.6 to 2.2 grams per kilogram.

6. Protein for Older Adults

Older adults should aim for at least 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram body weight per day, as this intake has been shown to nearly eliminate age-related muscle loss and reduce frailty risk by 30% in older women.

7. Utilize Sauna for Health

Incorporate regular sauna use for cardiovascular adaptations, heat shock protein activation, and reduction in dementia and cardiovascular disease risk, aiming for specific temperatures and durations.

8. Optimal Dry Sauna Temperature

Aim for a dry sauna temperature between 180-190 degrees Fahrenheit for optimal benefits, as there is no added advantage to going hotter and potential risks above 200 degrees Fahrenheit.

9. Avoid Extreme Sauna Heat

Avoid using dry saunas at extremely high temperatures (e.g., above 200-212 degrees Fahrenheit), as one study suggested an increased dementia risk at such temperatures, with particular concern for head exposure.

10. Disregard mTOR Protein Concerns

Do not be overly concerned about the controversy surrounding protein intake, mTOR activation, and cancer risk, especially if you are physically active, as the benefits of adequate protein for muscle health and longevity outweigh these theoretical concerns in humans.

11. No Harm from High Protein

Do not be concerned about consuming up to 2.5 grams of protein per kilogram body weight per day, as there is currently no human clinical or epidemiological evidence to suggest it is harmful in healthy adults.

12. Tailor Nutrition to Activity

Recognize that optimal nutrition strategies, including protein intake, differ significantly between active and sedentary individuals; do not apply the same dietary advice to both groups.

13. Protein Calculation for Obesity

If you are overweight or obese, calculate your protein intake based on your target body weight or lean body mass, rather than your actual weight, to avoid excessively high protein recommendations.

14. High Protein for Body Recomposition

For body recomposition (losing fat and gaining muscle), prioritize a high protein intake, potentially up to 2.2 grams per kilogram body weight per day, to prevent muscle catabolism during caloric deficit and support muscle protein synthesis.

15. Liquid Protein on GLP-1s

Individuals using GLP-1 receptor agonists (e.g., tirzepatide) should prioritize easy-to-digest liquid protein sources like shakes to ensure adequate protein intake (e.g., 1.6 g/kg/day) despite reduced appetite and slowed digestion.

16. Maintain Steady GLP-1 Dose

When using GLP-1 receptor agonists, aim for a slow and steady approach with a lower, consistent dose (e.g., 2.5 mg tirzepatide) rather than rapid dose escalation or cycling on and off the drug, to minimize muscle loss and other potential downsides.

17. Consider Creatine Supplementation

Consider supplementing with creatine monohydrate, a safe and well-studied supplement, to enhance strength, endurance performance, and support cognitive function, especially under stress or for brain health.

18. Creatine Dose for Brain

To increase creatine levels in the brain and potentially enhance cognitive function, consider increasing your daily creatine monohydrate intake to 10 grams, as 5 grams may be primarily consumed by muscles.

19. Creatine for Cognitive Stress

Utilize creatine supplementation, particularly at higher doses (e.g., 10 grams/day), to support cognitive function and mitigate deficits during periods of stress such as sleep deprivation, psychological stress, or brain aging.

20. Choose Certified Creatine

When purchasing creatine, ensure it is creatine monohydrate and ideally look for NSF certification to guarantee purity and absence of contaminants like heavy metals.

21. Use Cystatin C for GFR

When monitoring kidney function, especially in individuals supplementing with creatine, ask your physician to use Cystatin C as it provides a more accurate estimate of GFR and is not confounded by creatine intake.

22. Optimal Protein for Training

For individuals engaged in resistance training, aim for an optimal protein intake of at least 1.6 grams per kilogram body weight per day to significantly increase lean body mass and muscle strength.

23. Creatine Needs Exercise

Understand that creatine supplementation enhances muscle mass and strength gains by allowing you to perform more work during exercise; it is not a substitute for physical training.

24. Protein for Adolescents

Adolescents, especially those who are physically active, should aim for a protein intake of at least 1.2 to 1.6 grams per kilogram body weight per day to support growth and activity levels.

25. Liquid Protein During Fasting

If practicing intermittent fasting or time-restricted eating for body recomposition, consume liquid protein shakes outside of your main eating window to maintain an amino acid excess and hit protein targets while in a caloric deficit.

26. Sedentary Minimum Protein

Even if sedentary and with unhealthy lifestyle factors, ensure you consume at least the minimal recommended protein intake (1.2 g/kg/day) to avoid a deficit, but avoid excessive protein if not supporting physical activity.

27. Creatine Dosing for Muscle

To saturate muscle tissue, take 5 grams of creatine monohydrate per day; it typically takes about three weeks to a month to reach full saturation without a loading phase, which is generally unnecessary.

28. Split High Creatine Doses

If taking higher doses of creatine (e.g., 10-20 grams/day for jet lag or intense cognitive stress), split the intake into multiple 5-gram doses throughout the day to minimize potential gastrointestinal distress.

29. Prefer Creatine Powder

Opt for creatine powder over capsules, as achieving effective doses (e.g., 5-10 grams) with capsules would require consuming an impractically large number of pills.

30. Avoid Creatine Gummies

Avoid creatine gummy products, as third-party testing has shown that most contain negligible or no active creatine monohydrate due to manufacturing challenges and heat degradation.

31. Creatine for Active Youth

Consider creatine supplementation for active children (e.g., 2.5 grams/day for a son) and adolescents (e.g., 5-10 grams/day for a tall, active daughter) to improve agility, speed, and cognitive function, especially during periods of intense study.

32. Hot Bath for Heat Shock

To induce a heat shock protein response, take a hot bath at approximately 104 degrees Fahrenheit for 20 minutes with your shoulders submerged.

33. Sauna for Heat Shock

To significantly increase heat shock proteins, use a dry sauna at around 163 degrees Fahrenheit for 30 minutes.

34. Infrared Sauna Duration

If using an infrared sauna, be prepared to double the duration compared to a traditional dry sauna to achieve similar cardiovascular and heat stress benefits, as the temperature is typically lower.

35. Optimize mTOR Activation

Aim for a balanced approach to mTOR activation, promoting it when it serves a purpose (e.g., during and after exercise to build muscle) and allowing it to be relatively silent otherwise, rather than constantly activating or suppressing it.

36. Consider Sauna Hat

If experiencing discomfort in the head during hot sauna sessions, consider wearing a sauna hat, as it seems to help, although the exact mechanism is unclear.

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