<p>Terry Real, a renowned family therapist and best-selling author, helps people create the connections they desire in their relationships. In this episode, Terry describes how his upbringing with an abusive father forged his path to become a therapist, develop his Relational Life Therapy (RLT) framework, and write <em>I Don't Want to Talk About It</em>—a book that reveals the hidden legacy of male depression. Terry discusses the link between childhood trauma and the deep-rooted shame, anger, and depression, which can result in feeling disconnected. Using real-life examples, Terry explains how he implements RLT to confront trauma, discover its origin, and teach the skills to break the cycle of pain, in order to live a satisfying life.</p> <div> </div> <div>We discuss:</div> <ul type="disc"> <li>Terry's upbringing with a depressed and abusive father [3:15];</li> <li>The importance of the repair process, after relational disharmony, to break the trauma cycle [15:15];</li> <li>The impact of a patriarchal society, and relational growth as the next step for feminism [19:00];</li> <li>Origins of deep-rooted shame, and the difference between feeling ashamed and feeling guilty [27:15];</li> <li>Preventing the propagation of trauma without over-coddling kids [35:30];</li> <li>The one-up/one-down cycle from grandiosity to shame [37:30];</li> <li>Covert depression—Steps to fixing the secret legacy of male depression [40:00];</li> <li>Three forms of false self-esteem [50:00];</li> <li>Narcissism—A misunderstood concept [51:45];</li> <li>The interplay of shame, anger, and grandiosity, and how to break the cycle [54:15];</li> <li>The Relational Life Therapy framework [1:06:30];</li> <li>How the adaptive child becomes the maladaptive adult [1:15:30];</li> <li>Speaking the language of social relationships [1:21:45];</li> <li>When does it make sense for a couple to separate? [1:26:30];</li> <li>Witness abuse—Consequences of screaming at your partner in the presence of children [1:28:15];</li> <li>Cases of instantaneous change, and other behavioral changes that may take more time [1:30:45];</li> <li>Reconciling with his father—Terry's final conversation with his dad [1:33:45]; and</li> <li>More.</li> </ul> <p>Learn more: <a href="https://peterattiamd.com/">https://peterattiamd.com/</a><br /> <br /> Show notes page for this episode: <a href="https://peterattiamd.com/terryreal">https://peterattiamd.com/terryreal</a><br /> <br /> Subscribe to receive exclusive subscriber-only content: <a href="https://peterattiamd.com/subscribe/">https://peterattiamd.com/subscribe/</a><br /> <br /> Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: <a href="https://peterattiamd.com/newsletter/">https://peterattiamd.com/newsletter/</a><br /> <br /> Connect with Peter on <a href="http://Facebook.com/PeterAttiaMD"><u>Faceboo</u></a><u>k</u> | <a href="http://Twitter.com/PeterAttiaMD"><u>Twitter</u></a> | <a href="http://Instagram.com/PeterAttiaMD"><u>Instagram</u></a>.</p>
Actionable Insights
1. Break Generational Pathology
Be the person in your generation with the courage to face and halt destructive family patterns, bringing peace to ancestors and sparing future children from inherited trauma.
2. Cultivate Relational Living
Strive to live a life rich in healthy, satisfying emotional connections, as this is what humans are born for and what truly brings happiness.
3. Practice “Loving Voice”
Communicate by being strong and loving simultaneously, setting boundaries and expressing needs while cherishing the other person in the same breath.
4. Embrace Crisis for Breakthroughs
View personal crises, midlife challenges, or relationship breakdowns as crucial opportunities for profound self-reflection and transformative change, signaling that old coping mechanisms are no longer effective.
5. Recognize Shame-Grandiosity Dynamic
Understand that feelings of inadequacy (shame) often flip into superiority and attack (grandiosity), which is a core dynamic of abuse and violence in relationships and within oneself.
6. Shift from Self-Preoccupation to Empathy
When you’ve made a mistake, move beyond self-condemnation or self-entitlement to focus on how you’ve hurt others, paying attention to their pain and making amends.
7. Cultivate Healthy Self-Esteem
Develop the capacity to cherish yourself in the face of imperfections and screw-ups, understanding that your worth and dignity are inherent, not based on external achievements or comparisons.
8. Reject Traditional Masculine Ideals
Challenge the patriarchal notions that men must deny vulnerability and seek dominance, as these ideals are destructive to self and relationships.
9. Protect Children from Witness Abuse
Shield children from exposure to yelling and screaming between adults, as they internalize it as direct abuse, causing lasting harm.
10. Understand Covert Male Depression
Recognize that depression in men often manifests covertly through radical isolation, anger, sexual acting out, or substance abuse, rather than overt sadness.
11. Identify False Self-Esteem
Be aware of and challenge self-worth derived from performance, others’ opinions, or external attributes, as these are unreliable sources of esteem.
12. Self-Regulate Anger & Contempt
Consciously breathe down from anger, indignation, and contempt by reframing the situation as a choice to protect your own peace and well-being, rather than engaging in destructive reactions.
13. Communicate Vulnerability in Conflict
When feeling annoyed or contemptuous in a relationship, recognize it as a sign of underlying dependency and helplessness, then communicate this vulnerability to your partner.
14. Follow Relational Therapy Phases
Engage in a structured process for personal and relational growth, moving through loving confrontation (awareness), family of origin work (understanding roots), and skill-building (new behaviors).
15. Write Letter to Adaptive Child
Complete a self-reflection exercise by writing a letter to your ‘adaptive child,’ thanking it for past protection, acknowledging its costs, and committing to adult self-care and new behaviors.
16. Commit to Long-Term Skill Practice
Understand that mastering new relational skills requires consistent practice over approximately three to five years, similar to learning a new language.
17. Recognize Relationship Deal Breakers
Be aware of non-negotiable issues in relationships, such as unaddressed addiction, fundamental incompatibilities (e.g., monogamy), significant maturity discrepancies, or violence, which may necessitate separation.
18. Seek Ongoing Support for Change
After making significant personal transformations, seek continuous support (e.g., therapy, 12-step programs) to sustain and integrate new behaviors and mindsets.
19. Consider Antidepressants for Depression
If struggling with depression, consider the use of antidepressants as a potentially helpful tool, as discussed by Terry Real.
20. Read “I Don’t Want to Talk About It”
Read Terry Real’s book, “I Don’t Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression,” which Peter Attia highly recommends for its illuminating insights.
21. Join Podcast Membership
Subscribe to The Drive podcast’s membership program for in-depth content, comprehensive show notes, AMA episodes, and other exclusive benefits to deepen your knowledge.