← 10% Happier with Dan Harris

How To Make a Marriage Work | Chodo Robert Campbell and Koshin Paley Ellison (Co-Interviewed by Dr. Bianca Harris)

Feb 12, 2025 1h 18m 13 insights
<p>A candid, useful, and hilarious conversation.</p> <p> </p> <p><a href="https://www.instagram.com/chodorobertcampbell/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Chodo Robert Campbell Sensei</a> is a Zen teacher, bereavement specialist, grief counselor and a recognized leader for those suffering with the complexities of death & dying, aging, and sobriety. The educational non-profit he co-founded, the <a href="https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&amp;ai=DChcSEwjXm5iq9YCLAxWWKa0GHXwGHb4YABAAGgJwdg&amp;ae=2&amp;aspm=1&amp;co=1&amp;ase=5&amp;gclid=Cj0KCQiAv628BhC2ARIsAIJIiK_Id7AWqCR2kH8PMqmxpuS-JQQUwmoeeHYmDwg7XSIVe8tqCvcqrjkaAvNTEALw_wcB&amp;ohost=www.google.com&amp;cid=CAESV-D2ydXzHQvmgmHrXY6njC8Xo5SckVqa2UxKVnqvHZAooIq9B_duJgZILkRjP3LOZaYafaWzJCcXhCgQla_o6uuLzuLL00Qb0tMBFhfrO4MeOH6JKLip0g&amp;sig=AOD64_1dP7EmUyFphI-m8gLapZcR7rdCOw&amp;q&amp;adurl&amp;ved=2ahUKEwiul4-q9YCLAxWRHzQIHWI6LOUQ0Qx6BAgGEAM" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care</a>, touches thousands of lives every year through its numerous educational programs, contemplative retreats, and Soto Zen Buddhist practices. Chodo has been featured in the New York Times, PBS, CBS Sunday Morning and other media outlets. </p> <p><a href="https://www.instagram.com/koshinpaleyellison/?hl=en" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Koshin Paley Ellison</a> is an author, Zen teacher, Jungian psychotherapist, leader in contemplative care, and co-founder of an educational non-profit called the <a href="https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&amp;ai=DChcSEwjXm5iq9YCLAxWWKa0GHXwGHb4YABAAGgJwdg&amp;ae=2&amp;aspm=1&amp;co=1&amp;ase=5&amp;gclid=Cj0KCQiAv628BhC2ARIsAIJIiK_Id7AWqCR2kH8PMqmxpuS-JQQUwmoeeHYmDwg7XSIVe8tqCvcqrjkaAvNTEALw_wcB&amp;ohost=www.google.com&amp;cid=CAESV-D2ydXzHQvmgmHrXY6njC8Xo5SckVqa2UxKVnqvHZAooIq9B_duJgZILkRjP3LOZaYafaWzJCcXhCgQla_o6uuLzuLL00Qb0tMBFhfrO4MeOH6JKLip0g&amp;sig=AOD64_1dP7EmUyFphI-m8gLapZcR7rdCOw&amp;q&amp;adurl&amp;ved=2ahUKEwiul4-q9YCLAxWRHzQIHWI6LOUQ0Qx6BAgGEAM" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care</a>. His books, grounded in Buddhist wisdom and practice, have gained national attention. Through its numerous educational programs, contemplative retreats, and Soto Zen Buddhist practices, the New York Zen Center touches thousands of lives every year. Koshin has appeared on dozens of podcasts and his work has been featured in the New York Times, PBS, CBS Sunday Morning and other media outlets. </p> <p> </p> <p> </p> <p><strong>In this episode we talk about:</strong></p> <ul> <li>We get really real on the role of early childhood trauma and how that can show up in our relationships</li> <li>The importance of understanding your partner's operating manual and how to come up with rules of the road</li> <li>The role of humor in relationships—how it can be used to successfully name the difficult parts of our partner's personality—and how that can go wrong</li> <li>Why it's important to do your own work outside of your relationship—in therapy and meditation or whatever is useful to you</li> <li>And the value of learning to be uncomfortable… together</li> </ul> <p> </p> <p><strong>Related Episodes:</strong></p> <ul> <li><a href="https://meditatehappier.com/podcast/tph/richard-schwartz-323" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">How (and Why) to Hug Your Inner Dragons | Richard Schwartz</a></li> <li><a href="https://meditatehappier.com/podcast/tph/koshin-paley-ellison-repost" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Escape From Zombieland | Koshin Paley Ellison</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.meditatehappier.com/podcast/tph/koshin-paley-ellison-528" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Surprising Power of "Healthy Embarrassment" | Koshin Paley Ellison</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.danharris.com/p/the-art-of-growing-up-jerry-colonna-713" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Art of Growing Up, Jerry Colonna</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.danharris.com/p/jerry-colonna-ceo-whisperer-and-rebootio-5b9" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jerry Colonna, 'CEO Whisperer' and Reboot.io Founder - Dan Harris</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.meditatehappier.com/podcast/tph/drbruceperry" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">This Neurobiologist Wants You To Ask One Question To Reframe Anxiety, Depression, And Trauma | Dr. Bruce Perry (Co-Interviewed by Dan's Wife, Bianca!)</a></li> <li><a href="https://meditatehappier.com/podcast/tph/evelyn-tribole-rerun-2023" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Anti-Diet | Evelyn Tribole </a></li> </ul> <p> </p> <p><strong>Follow Dan on social:</strong> <a href="https://bit.ly/3tGigG5" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>Instagram</strong></a><strong>,</strong> <a href="https://bit.ly/3FOA84J" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>TikTok</strong></a></p> <p><strong>Subscribe to our</strong> <a href="https://bit.ly/3FybRzD" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>YouTube Channel</strong></a></p> <p><strong>Our favorite playlists on:</strong> <a href="https://spoti.fi/3Qa8kMT" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>Anxiety</strong></a><strong>,</strong> <a href="https://spoti.fi/3MjtMxF" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>Sleep</strong></a><strong>,</strong> <a href="https://spoti.fi/3QvyA5J" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>Relationships</strong></a><strong>,</strong> <a href="https://spoti.fi/3QxZASc" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>Most Popular Episodes</strong></a></p> <p> </p> <p> </p> <p> </p>
Episode Page ↗
Actionable Insights

1. Understand Partner’s Past Trauma

Shift your perspective from asking ‘What’s the matter with you?’ to ‘What happened to you?’ to understand your partner’s past traumas and experiences, as this foundational empathy is crucial for navigating relationship challenges effectively.

2. Do Individual Self-Work

Engage in personal practices like therapy or meditation to ’turn down the I’ (ego) and reduce self-centeredness. This individual effort makes you more available and present for your partner in the relationship.

3. Cultivate Shared Growth Values

Ensure both partners share a genuine willingness and commitment to personal and relational growth. Actively discuss how you both want to evolve, as this shared value is critical to avoid complacency and foster vitality.

4. Understand Your Own ‘Operating Manual’

Dedicate time to individual self-work to understand your own ‘operating manual’ – your patterns, needs, and triggers. Recognize that your partner cannot solely resolve your traumas or figure out your issues for you.

5. Maintain a Flexible ‘Operating Manual’

While understanding your personal ‘operating manual’ is crucial, ensure it remains flexible and open to change. Allow your partner’s expectations and perspectives to challenge you and foster personal growth.

6. Seek Permission for Plans

Establish clear ‘rules of the road’ by asking your partner for their input or permission before making plans or changes that affect them. This practice demonstrates respect, ensures consultation, and prevents triggering feelings of lack of agency.

7. Name Partner’s Inner Parts

Develop affectionate, agreed-upon names for your partner’s challenging inner ‘parts’ or aspects of their personality (e.g., ‘Whiplash Willie’). This technique, when used outside of conflict, helps depersonalize issues and prevents taking their reactions personally during disagreements.

8. Practice Compassion and Boundaries

Cultivate genuine compassion for your partner when they are suffering, even if they are lashing out. Establish clear boundaries or rules to address unacceptable behavior while still expressing care and a desire to reconnect.

9. Question Your Internal Narrative

In moments of struggle, utilize the tool of asking yourself and your partner, ‘What’s the story you’re telling yourself right now?’ This helps both parties recognize when they are caught in a narrative, fostering understanding and compassion.

10. Embrace Shared Discomfort

Be willing to experience discomfort and awkwardness together in your relationship. Viewing these moments as a mark of love allows you to care for one another through challenging, uncertain times.

11. View Relationship as Growth Opportunity

Reframe romantic relationships not just as a path to ‘happily ever after,’ but as a ‘crucible for growth’ that requires active work. This perspective highlights opportunities to become happier, stronger, and healthier individuals through shared challenges.

12. Use Humor in Tough Moments

Employ humor during difficult or uncomfortable relationship moments, as it helps maintain authenticity, love, and connection when challenges arise. This allows you to stay in relationship even when things are tricky.

13. Express Love Before Parting

Make it a habit to express your love to your partner before leaving the house, perhaps by holding their face and saying ‘I love you.’ This practice acknowledges the preciousness of each moment and ensures they know exactly how you feel.