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George Saunders on: "Holy Befuddlement" and How to Be Less of a "Turd"

Oct 12, 2022 1h 3m 47 insights
<p><em>New episodes come out every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday for free, with 1-week early access for Wondery+ subscribers.</em></p> <p><em>---</em></p> <p>One of the great perils and problems of our age is that we sometimes become too entrenched in our views and attached to being right. </p> <p><br /></p> <p>According to guest George Saunders, the antidote is something he calls "holy befuddlement." </p> <p><br /></p> <p>George Saunders is the author of eleven books, including <em>Lincoln in the Bardo</em>, which won the 2017 Man Booker Prize for best work of fiction in English. His most recent book, <em>Liberation Day</em>, is a collection of short stories that explore the ideas of power, ethics, and justice, cutting to the heart of what it means to live in community with our fellow humans. </p> <p><br /></p> <p><strong>In this episode we talk about:</strong></p> <p><br /></p> <ul> <li>How George Saunders creates "holy befuddlement" in himself and in his readers</li> <li>How shaving down dogmatism can help us be, in his words, less of a "turd"</li> <li>How to deal with heightened expectations we might have of ourselves</li> <li>Healthy ways to enjoy praise</li> <li>What it looks like to cultivate a relationship with our self, to the extent that the self exists</li> <li>The importance of moral ambiguity in his work</li> <li>The impact of meditating – or not meditating – on our creative work </li> <li>And forgiveness and coming up short</li> </ul> <p><br /></p> <p><strong>Full Shownotes:</strong> <a href="https://www.tenpercent.com/podcast-episode/george-saunders-511" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.tenpercent.com/podcast-episode/george-saunders-511</a></p> <p><br /></p>
Actionable Insights

1. Cultivate Holy Befuddlement

Embrace “holy befuddlement” or “don’t know mind” to counter rigid views and attachment to being right, fostering humility and improving interpersonal relationships. This state removes the ability to make facile mistakes and cultivates new respect for problems.

2. Embrace Contradictory Truths

Aim to feel comfortable and intelligent when holding two seemingly contradictory notions that both appear true, allowing them to coexist without immediate resolution. This is described as a “highest place to be” for understanding.

3. Accept Impermanence as Holy Truth

Acknowledge the “holy truth” that everything is constantly falling apart and nothing lasts, striving to accept this reality in your body and mind without succumbing to terror. This understanding can be a profound, albeit sometimes terrifying, truth.

4. Empathy Permeates Self-Other Barrier

Actively inhabit other minds to understand that the barrier between self and other is permeable, fostering forgiveness by recognizing that under different conditions, you might have acted similarly. This deep understanding can make it difficult to remain angry.

5. Prepare for Difficult Conversations

Before engaging in difficult conversations, clear your mind of projections and “shoulds,” then seek a moment of “moral elevation” through art or observation. This opens your heart and allows you to approach the discussion with less “BS” and more openness.

6. Use Provisional Language

In arguments, lace your comments with words like “perhaps,” “maybe,” or “could” to make a genuine nod to uncertainty. This technique creates space for dialogue and avoids presenting your views as absolute truths.

7. Build Off-Ramps in Conflict

In conflicts, put aside outrage, listen, and offer “off-ramps” for the other person by suggesting you might be wrong or they know better. This approach fosters intimacy in communication and creates more space for resolution.

8. Slow Down for Fairer Judgment

Intentionally slow down your thinking, especially if anxious or fast-brained, to cultivate a more fair, caring, and thoughtful internal arbiter. This allows for deeper consideration than you might achieve when rushing.

9. Fondness Without Self-Attachment

Cultivate a relationship with your “self” that is fond but not overly attached or protective, viewing it as a temporary, changing gift. This allows appreciation without clinging to its permanence or perfection.

10. Practice Not-Self Observation

Observe thoughts and impulses as they arise in your mind, recognizing that you don’t own them and cannot claim ownership. This fosters a proper, non-attached relationship to your mental content without annihilating the self.

11. Treat Ideas as Temporary Gifts

View creative ideas and thoughts as temporary gifts, not personal possessions, maintaining a light attachment. This enables you to easily cut or change them if they no longer serve the work, like returning them to the wind.

12. Kill Your Darlings

Be willing to remove ideas or phrases you’re fond of if they don’t serve the overall work, avoiding the trap of clinging to them just because they make you feel clever. Clinging to them will ultimately detract from the story’s service.

13. Focused Creative Mind State

Seek to enter a non-normal, highly focused mental state during creative work, characterized by less rumination and intense concentration on the immediate task. This state, similar to a rock climber’s focus, can lead to happiness and productivity.

14. Small Kind Actions Matter

Recognize that small, incremental actions of kindness are meaningful and not trivial, especially amidst larger global craziness. These small acts are not inconsequential and contribute significantly to positive change.

15. Compassion Has No Hierarchy

Understand that compassionate action has no hierarchy; small acts of kindness are just as valuable as grand gestures. Do not negate small acts because you haven’t accomplished a big one.

16. Relative Truth: Small Things Matter

While acknowledging the absolute emptiness of meaning, recognize that on a relative scale, small actions genuinely matter and create good. For example, saying the right thing to someone feeling bad is a tangible good.

17. Manage Self-Generated Expectations

Acknowledge and observe self-generated expectations and the negative ways attention might make you act, then consciously work to “knock it off your back.” This prevents such expectations from hindering future work.

18. Quick Hit of Praise, Move On

When receiving praise, take a quick hit of pleasure but then move “onward” without overusing or clinging to it. Excessive dwelling on praise diminishes its positive effect, like overeating candy.

19. Use All Motivations as Fuel

Don’t judge your initial motivations for working, even if they seem “crass” (e.g., wanting praise), but instead convert them into fuel to drive your efforts. This allows deeper, more wholesome motivations to emerge over time.

20. Work as Love Exchange

View your work as an exchange of love: you give useful work to your audience, and in return, you receive love that fuels your ability to create more. It’s acceptable to have these motivations if they are in their proper place.

21. Have Questions, Not Answers

Approach situations by having questions rather than assuming you have all the answers, especially when discussing complex topics. This fosters a more open, learning mindset and avoids dogmatism.

22. Recognize Dogmatism’s Subtle Pain

Be aware of the “subtle pain of dogmatism”—the discomfort that arises when you strenuously argue for something you secretly suspect isn’t true. This discomfort signals a need for more openness and less certainty.

23. Art for Better Action

Engage with art to cultivate a fuller, more human presence, which prepares you to make better decisions and take more effective action when urgent issues arise. This ensures you are “fully there” in your actions.

24. Art for Self-Reorientation

Engage with art to reorient yourself, reminding you of a deeper, better part of yourself that resides more profoundly in the world. This is especially useful when you find yourself running on autopilot.

25. Seek Moral Elevation

Seek out or observe acts of kindness to experience “moral elevation,” which serves as a reminder that you are capable of similar kindness and daring. This reinforces your ability to act compassionately.

26. Practice Empathy Through Revision

In creative work and communication, practice empathy through revision by actively considering the “other person” (e.g., the reader’s objections or journey). Rewrite to give them more credit and care, making communication more intimate.

27. Care for Characters and Subjects

Extend care and attention not only to your audience but also to the subjects or characters you portray. Ensure you give them their due and avoid superficial representation.

28. Technical Practice Fosters Empathy

Engage in specific technical practices in creative work, such as density of detail, specificity, and precision of language. Paradoxically, these mechanical means lead to increased empathy for the subject being described.

29. Practices for Self-Improvement

Recognize that wishing to be better is insufficient; instead, engage in specific practices (like writing or other disciplines) that, even obliquely, cultivate desired qualities such as empathy. Wishing alone doesn’t make it so.

30. Trust Intuition in Creative Work

For artistic or creative work, trust intuition and a gut-level response by coming to the work daily, making iterative changes based on immediate feedback. This process allows a deeper wisdom to emerge beyond habitual thinking.

31. Focus on Small Creative Tweaks

In creative work, focus on small, incremental tweaks (e.g., individual sentences, word choice) rather than aiming for greatness from the outset. These micro-decisions cumulatively build the larger work.

32. Refine Work to Title

After choosing a title, continue to make tweaks and revisions to the work to ensure it fully embodies and lives up to the chosen title’s meaning. This iterative process helps align the content with its overarching theme.

33. Title Selection Process

When selecting titles, initially choose the “least bad” option, then read the complete work with a fresh mind to identify emerging themes. Refine the title to resonate with the deeper meaning discovered during this fresh read.

34. Observe Meditation’s Absence

Notice the return of old negative thought patterns, obsession, neurosis, and negativity when you neglect meditation. Use this awareness to reinforce the value of the practice and motivate a return to it.

35. Physical Work for Mental Well-being

Recognize that physical activity (like intense cleaning or exercise) and engaging in creative work can significantly contribute to a lighter, more positive mind. These activities can be beneficial even when meditation is neglected.

36. Cultivate Inner Desire for Practice

Allow the discomfort of a neglected inner world to cultivate an intrinsic desire for practice (like meditation), rather than relying on external “shoulds.” This leads to a more genuine return to beneficial habits.

37. Avoid Meditation Fundamentalism

Avoid “meditation fundamentalism” by recognizing that many diverse psychological, spiritual, and physical practices can be beneficial. Meditation is just one of many valuable tools for well-being.

38. Be Aware of Ego’s Cleverness

Be aware of the ego’s “cleverness,” as it can even co-opt spiritual practices like meditation, turning them into a source of pride or a justification for other behaviors. The ego is slippery and finds many forms.

39. Agitation in Creative Mix

Recognize that for some, a degree of “agitation” or “desire for praise” can be a productive part of the creative mix. These elements can contribute to effective work, though not as a universal policy.

40. Forgiveness as Perspective Melding

Consider forgiveness as a profound melding of perspectives, where truly understanding another person’s complete experience and motivations makes it difficult to remain angry. In this state, you “are” them in that moment of understanding.

41. Acknowledge Forgiveness Limits

Acknowledge the realistic limits of your own forgiveness, recognizing that despite intentions for infinite compassion, there will be offenses that cause you to balk and cling to your sense of being correct. This reflects human complexity.

42. Prioritize Others’ Relief

Practice refraining from actions that would provide you personal relief (e.g., confessing a mistake) if those actions would ultimately make another person’s life worse. Prioritize their well-being over your own immediate comfort.

43. Illustrate Human Failure in Art

Find artistic and human merit in illustrating instances where characters (and by extension, people) fall short of ideals, rather than always seeking uplifting or morally coherent endings. This reflects real-life complexity and fosters reader identification.

44. Manage Moral Fluctuations

Recognize that spiritual experiences and moral elevation are real, even if followed by moments of “turdness.” View these as fluctuations and strive to increase the frequency of positive states and reduce negative ones.

45. Character Failure Fosters Identification

Allow characters to fail in stories to create reader identification, fostering a sense that it’s okay for individuals to fall short in real life without it being “the end of the world.” This promotes self-acceptance.

46. Feelings on a Continuum

Understand that all human feelings exist on a continuum, meaning even a slight experience of a feeling (e.g., mild hunger) can provide insight into its more extreme forms. This fosters empathy by connecting shared human experience.

47. Reduce Dogmatism

Actively work to reduce dogmatism in your views and interactions. This practice can help you be “less of a turd” and improve your character and relationships.